I am better than most bronzies

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I am better than most bronzies

Post by Heartstop123 on 29/7/2014, 4:49 am

... At least I am more knowledgeable about how to end when to splitpush dragon baron etc. my mechanics are bronze / wood. I find that when I win games it is rarely because I carry. Most games I break even or go negative, but I am the rare bronze who focuses objectives over kills.

I am not saying that I am good, I am far from it, but the decision making of most of my team mates is nonexistent. If / when my team listens to my direction we win. If / when they say "why would we listen to you, you're negative KD idiot" we lose.

One day I will practice mechanics and I have no doubt I will climb for a long time. Until then, anyone have tips on positioning during teamfights for APC / ADC? I try to stay in the back but I feel like nobody on my team will initiate and we end up getting picked off before the teamfights most times if I don't initiate.
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by KMV on 29/7/2014, 7:18 am

A lot of factors go into this.

Do you smartcast?
How well do you cs?

In the end of the day the difference between bronze and silver is csing and very basic decision making such as not flashing over a wall just to get some cs or using your gap closer to jump into the enemy team with 15% of your health left. To get out of bronze simply outcs your opponent everytime and get more kills thru roaming or killing your opponent. If you have 1 champion you can play well enough play it as much as you can.

Other things to work on
Item builds: One thing bronze players do is tunnel on one build and just use it every game. Unless the items are incredibly broken on the champion you are playing you shouldn't have the same items every game. You should look to build according to what your facing.


Example:
Lets say you are playing Xerath and the other team has a mundo top, warwick jungle, and soraka support. Instead of building the usual Chalice into deathcap, go Morellonomicon + tear + Deathcap. Just think of the amount they aren't healing for as damage done and this setup works out to a lot more damage done then Chalice + deathcap.

Warding:
In bronze usually warding is a waste of time because bronze players don't look at the map very well even when they aren't even fighting their opponent. Nonetheless still look to buy and place a pink ward down every game and place it in cleaver spots. Even in gold when I place a pink ward down it usually last on average 20 minutes which is really good for 100 gold and vision of the area.

Remember, last but not least each time you die for pretty much nothing is a mistake you made.

You do all of the above and you should win 65-70% of your games. You could also duo queue with someone to make the game a bit easier.

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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Heartstop123 on 29/7/2014, 8:20 am

KMV wrote:A lot of factors go into this.

Do you smartcast?
How well do you cs?

In the end of the day the difference between bronze and silver is csing and very basic decision making such as not flashing over a wall just to get some cs or using your gap closer to jump into the enemy team with 15% of your health left. To get out of bronze simply outcs your opponent everytime and get more kills thru roaming or killing your opponent. If you have 1 champion you can play well enough play it as much as you can.

Other things to work on
Item builds: One thing bronze players do is tunnel on one build and just use it every game. Unless the items are incredibly broken on the champion you are playing you shouldn't have the same items every game. You should look to build according to what your facing.


Example:
Lets say you are playing Xerath and the other team has a mundo top, warwick jungle, and soraka support. Instead of building the usual Chalice into deathcap, go Morellonomicon + tear + Deathcap. Just think of the amount they aren't healing for as damage done and this setup works out to a lot more damage done then Chalice + deathcap.

Warding:
In bronze usually warding is a waste of time because bronze players don't look at the map very well even when they aren't even fighting their opponent. Nonetheless still look to buy and place a pink ward down every game and place it in cleaver spots. Even in gold when I place a pink ward down it usually last on average 20 minutes which is really good for 100 gold and vision of the area.

Remember, last but not least each time you die for pretty much nothing is a mistake you made.

You do all of the above and you should win 65-70% of your games. You could also duo queue with someone to make the game a bit easier.
I use smartcast yes. I would give myself 6/10 for csing. I play on locked camera (you didn't mention it but I assume that is a factor as well)

About your xerath example - I understand switching up items depending on the situation, but with xerath I would build tabs dons then void staff in that situation to smack the adc down with my ult and then still remain relevant vs the tanks jungle / mid. Ignite would be a must in that game. I think morellonomicon is a noob trap because in order or the grievous wounds they must have under 40% HP first.

I consider myself to be proficient with Karma, but playing the same campion over and over is very boring. With karma I feel like I can't carry the team at all because I am out scaled by everyone late gamec and I end up a second support (if I wasn't already playing support)

Warding I am good at. Watching my minimal is another story, unless I am support or jungle then I am constantly watching the minimap. I always buy a pink on my first back no matter what role I am playing

I like duo q because then at least 1 other person will follow up / initiate for me
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by KMV on 29/7/2014, 8:33 am

Heartstop123 wrote:
KMV wrote:A lot of factors go into this.

Do you smartcast?
How well do you cs?

In the end of the day the difference between bronze and silver is csing and very basic decision making such as not flashing over a wall just to get some cs or using your gap closer to jump into the enemy team with 15% of your health left. To get out of bronze simply outcs your opponent everytime and get more kills thru roaming or killing your opponent. If you have 1 champion you can play well enough play it as much as you can.

Other things to work on
Item builds: One thing bronze players do is tunnel on one build and just use it every game. Unless the items are incredibly broken on the champion you are playing you shouldn't have the same items every game. You should look to build according to what your facing.


Example:
Lets say you are playing Xerath and the other team has a mundo top, warwick jungle, and soraka support. Instead of building the usual Chalice into deathcap, go Morellonomicon + tear + Deathcap. Just think of the amount they aren't healing for as damage done and this setup works out to a lot more damage done then Chalice + deathcap.

Warding:
In bronze usually warding is a waste of time because bronze players don't look at the map very well even when they aren't even fighting their opponent. Nonetheless still look to buy and place a pink ward down every game and place it in cleaver spots. Even in gold when I place a pink ward down it usually last on average 20 minutes which is really good for 100 gold and vision of the area.

Remember, last but not least each time you die for pretty much nothing is a mistake you made.

You do all of the above and you should win 65-70% of your games. You could also duo queue with someone to make the game a bit easier.
I use smartcast yes. I would give myself 6/10 for csing. I play on locked camera (you didn't mention it but I assume that is a factor as well)

About your xerath example - I understand switching up items depending on the situation, but with xerath I would build tabs dons then void staff in that situation to smack the adc down with my ult and then still remain relevant vs the tanks jungle / mid. Ignite would be a must in that game. I think morellonomicon is a noob trap because in order or the grievous wounds they must have under 40% HP first.

I consider myself to be proficient with Karma, but playing the same campion over and over is very boring. With karma I feel like I can't carry the team at all because I am out scaled by everyone late gamec and I end up a second support (if I wasn't already playing support)

Warding I am good at. Watching my minimal is another story, unless I am support or jungle then I am constantly watching the minimap. I always buy a pink on my first back no matter what role I am playing

It is indeed a trap if the Grievous wounds aren't worth it but in the case of the champions I listed above that is a lot of healing not done. If you are proficient enough on a champion that isn't too hard to do early to mid game. In bronze anything can essentially carry just the more damage it does and the better you can play the champion at all stages of the game the easier it is to carry with a particular champion.

As for csing in 20 min 240 cs come thru your lane. 140 cs in 20 min should be your minimal goal. Of course you want as close to 240 as you possibly can.

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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by fishingman71 on 31/7/2014, 2:13 am

While focusing on objectives and splitpushing, all that stuff is important, I feel it isnt as important in bronze. For me, the answer was to play katarina. Honestly, there were many times that bot fed, top fed, but it diddnt even matter, because I could basically 1v5 their whole team. Even if they had CC, I would convince my teamates to just suicide and blow their cc. Katarina isnt the only champ that can do this sort of thing, you can easily carry with adc, or jungle, even top. Maybe support if you go morg/annie or something.
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Heartstop123 on 3/8/2014, 2:49 pm

here is a perfect example. I was the only one to win lane, I have the most cs I was the only one on my team to get a tower best KDA most gold... Morg was 1/4/0 in lane she did work in teamfights though  
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by KMV on 3/8/2014, 5:35 pm

Heartstop123 wrote:here is a perfect example. I was the only one to win lane, I have the most cs I was the only one on my team to get a tower best KDA most gold... Morg was 1/4/0 in lane she did work in teamfights though  

You may have the best KDA but, KDA doesn't mean jack especially when they have a super fed adc. Good CS, Kills, and staying alive are merely tools to win the game. Each time you make a play you should be asking yourself "What do I need to do next to win the game?". If you are continually answering that question right you will win more games. If you aren't well you can go 30/0 and lose merely because you aren't doing anything needed to win the game just killing. I would rather go 1/10 and win the game rather then go 10/1 and lose.

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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Heartstop123 on 4/8/2014, 4:16 am

Agreed ^ here is the total breakdown http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1479113069/209264087 I feel like I did all that I could but the circumstances were just stacked against me on this one. By 16 mins shaco had left graves was 6/1 and they had 4 towers to our 2. I can't gank bot from top lane and even if I did, letting jax free farm would have been worse for our team
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by KMV on 4/8/2014, 7:28 pm

Heartstop123 wrote:Agreed ^ here is the total breakdown http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1479113069/209264087 I feel like I did all that I could but the circumstances were just stacked against me on this one. By 16 mins shaco had left graves was 6/1 and they had 4 towers to our 2. I can't gank bot from top lane and even if I did, letting jax free farm would have been worse for our team

After looking at the match history this game is a prime example of why I play Karthus support. In the event my adc sucks dick I can just take the farm and carry. However in Gold I can slowly feel it starting to work less and less which is why if you want to play a mage support, play something with good cc and damage.


Example of a game you can't win because your teammates are dumb
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1468756009/207326034

In the above game I roamed bot lane a lot to get our adc. He pays me back by buying 100% crit, a runaans hurricane, and no last whisper. In the event you get an adc that itemizes this poorly DO NOT PEEL FOR HIM. You just let the other team dive and kill him while you go for the other teams adc. As for Shaco hes one of the hardest junglers in the game to play. Unless you look him up and see he has a 60%+ win rate on the champion I suggest you just dodge as that guy is probably going to be dead weight.

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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Heartstop123 on 4/8/2014, 8:00 pm

I have seen a surge of shaco players in my games recently probably 10-15 in the last week, any idea why?
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Tomatinho on 4/8/2014, 9:55 pm

Heartstop123 wrote:I have seen a surge of shaco players in my games recently probably 10-15 in the last week, any idea why?

Shaco is an overall fun and easy champ to play.
He's quite hard to master tho, and most bronzies don't see that.
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Aezure on 6/8/2014, 2:31 pm

After you win lane, just push, take the turret, shove it in to the t2 turret then go help your teammates do something useful. Roam top kill/damage top laner and take turret; go fuck with the opposing jungler whilst dropping some deep wards; use said deep wards to see when opposing jungler is on the other side of the map then roam bot kill/force out of lane opponents bot lane then do dragon.

If you are a player who deserves to win, it is well worth sacrificing any lane advantage you have to get your teammates ahead.
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Heartstop123 on 6/8/2014, 10:24 pm

Aezure wrote:After you win lane, just push, take the turret, shove it in to the t2 turret then go help your teammates do something useful. Roam top kill/damage top laner and take turret; go fuck with the opposing jungler whilst dropping some deep wards; use said deep wards to see when opposing jungler is on the other side of the map then roam bot kill/force out of lane opponents bot lane then do dragon.

If you are a player who deserves to win, it is well worth sacrificing any lane advantage you have to get your teammates ahead.
by the time I got top tower graves was fed, he probably would have turned and got a double or triple even
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by KMV on 7/8/2014, 1:31 pm

Heartstop123 wrote:
Aezure wrote:After you win lane, just push, take the turret, shove it in to the t2 turret then go help your teammates do something useful. Roam top kill/damage top laner and take turret; go fuck with the opposing jungler whilst dropping some deep wards; use said deep wards to see when opposing jungler is on the other side of the map then roam bot kill/force out of lane opponents bot lane then do dragon.

If you are a player who deserves to win, it is well worth sacrificing any lane advantage you have to get your teammates ahead.
by the time I got top tower graves was fed, he probably would have turned and got a double or triple even

Also I noticed you have barrier on as well. You should try practicing with Ignite or Tp as well. Barrier in a range v melee matchup isn't the best idea.

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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Connor on 7/8/2014, 3:24 pm

Heartstop123 wrote:I have seen a surge of shaco players in my games recently probably 10-15 in the last week, any idea why?

Most people think the big junglers got nerfed and are trying to find a new jungler to play. Shaco is a very good jungler if you can master him. Crypsi for example, single handedly can carry games as Shaco at a D1 level.

You should try to roam more. If you're playing mid or top and you have your lane pushed to their tower or they've backed and your wave is at their tower, roam mid or steal some enemy jungle or if you're running TP, look to make a play bot. When your wave is pushed to their tower you've got a lot of time to make an impact on the game. Keep shoving the wave and tower if you'd like, roam, anything. There are so many options.
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Heartstop123 on 8/8/2014, 11:12 am

KMV wrote:
Heartstop123 wrote:
Aezure wrote:After you win lane, just push, take the turret, shove it in to the t2 turret then go help your teammates do something useful. Roam top kill/damage top laner and take turret; go fuck with the opposing jungler whilst dropping some deep wards; use said deep wards to see when opposing jungler is on the other side of the map then roam bot kill/force out of lane opponents bot lane then do dragon.

If you are a player who deserves to win, it is well worth sacrificing any lane advantage you have to get your teammates ahead.
by the time I got top tower graves was fed, he probably would have turned and got a double or triple even

Also I noticed you have barrier on as well. You should try practicing with Ignite or Tp as well. Barrier in a range v melee matchup isn't the best idea.
I took barrier because it was my first time playing ryze in ranked and I haven't played ryze in months so I wanted to make sure I had an extra out incase i was getting shit on and Heal just got nerfed to into the ground. Normally I would take TP / ignite top lane
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Aezure on 8/8/2014, 3:58 pm

Heartstop123 wrote:
KMV wrote:
Heartstop123 wrote:
Aezure wrote:After you win lane, just push, take the turret, shove it in to the t2 turret then go help your teammates do something useful. Roam top kill/damage top laner and take turret; go fuck with the opposing jungler whilst dropping some deep wards; use said deep wards to see when opposing jungler is on the other side of the map then roam bot kill/force out of lane opponents bot lane then do dragon.

If you are a player who deserves to win, it is well worth sacrificing any lane advantage you have to get your teammates ahead.
by the time I got top tower graves was fed, he probably would have turned and got a double or triple even

Also I noticed you have barrier on as well. You should try practicing with Ignite or Tp as well. Barrier in a range v melee matchup isn't the best idea.
I took barrier because it was my first time playing ryze in ranked and I haven't played ryze in months so I wanted to make sure I had an extra out incase i was getting shit on and Heal just got nerfed to into the ground. Normally I would take TP / ignite top lane
Without TP or Ignite in top lane you can't really complain that you weren't able to influence the game.
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by KMV on 8/8/2014, 11:53 pm

Aezure wrote:
Heartstop123 wrote:
KMV wrote:
Heartstop123 wrote:
Aezure wrote:After you win lane, just push, take the turret, shove it in to the t2 turret then go help your teammates do something useful. Roam top kill/damage top laner and take turret; go fuck with the opposing jungler whilst dropping some deep wards; use said deep wards to see when opposing jungler is on the other side of the map then roam bot kill/force out of lane opponents bot lane then do dragon.

If you are a player who deserves to win, it is well worth sacrificing any lane advantage you have to get your teammates ahead.
by the time I got top tower graves was fed, he probably would have turned and got a double or triple even

Also I noticed you have barrier on as well. You should try practicing with Ignite or Tp as well. Barrier in a range v melee matchup isn't the best idea.
I took barrier because it was my first time playing ryze in ranked and I haven't played ryze in months so I wanted to make sure I had an extra out incase i was getting shit on and Heal just got nerfed to into the ground. Normally I would take TP / ignite top lane
Without TP or Ignite in top lane you can't really complain that you weren't able to influence the game.

I would suggest you go with Ignite over TP merely because, using TP offensively is so much harder to use. Its not uncommon for even diamond players to fuck up using TP offensively.

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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by liortulip on 18/8/2014, 1:18 am

Hey Heartstop! This is pretty simple advice but when I first heard it I was surprised how effective it was. My gameplay seemed to instantly improve and I found that I was winning a lot more games. In bronze I am sure people are constantly telling you to "focus the carry!" and will blame you for the loss of a fight if you don't. While its true that the role of assassins and bruisers is to kill and zone out the enemy AD/AP carry, this is rarely true for ADCs. You are far to squishy and vulnerable to dive deep enough to attack the enemy carry who is likely hiding in the back lines. Therefore, my advice to you is this:
Attack the Closest

In your next teamfight, try retaining max attack range and attacking the closest enemy character. If that's the enemy ADC, great!, but if it's their tank, thats fine too. By surviving longer and staying back, you effective damage output will increase. Please let me know how this method works for you. I hope it helped!
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by KMV on 18/8/2014, 1:51 am

liortulip wrote:Hey Heartstop! This is pretty simple advice but when I first heard it I was surprised how effective it was. My gameplay seemed to instantly improve and I found that I was winning a lot more games. In bronze I am sure people are constantly telling you to "focus the carry!" and will blame you for the loss of a fight if you don't. While its true that the role of assassins and bruisers is to kill and zone out the enemy AD/AP carry, this is rarely true for ADCs. You are far to squishy and vulnerable to dive deep enough to attack the enemy carry who is likely hiding in the back lines. Therefore, my advice to you is this:
Attack the Closest

In your next teamfight, try retaining max attack range and attacking the closest enemy character. If that's the enemy ADC, great!, but if it's their tank, thats fine too. By surviving longer and staying back, you effective damage output will increase. Please let me know how this method works for you. I hope it helped!

If by some chance in a bronze game the adc on the other team actually has an understanding of positioning then sure focus down the 1st target you can. However, when I was in bronze 95% of the time the adc is standing next to the tank and they complain "OMG NO PEEL" when you are positioned in a terrible spot. I've lost so many games merely because, my adc decides to walk in the front and give a free engage to the other team even when I tell them not to.

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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Heartstop123 on 18/8/2014, 3:43 am

I will have to try that thanks! I tend to be that ADC tha KMV described, though I am getting better! I have been playing normals and ARAMs to try things out before trying ranked again for a while
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by liortulip on 18/8/2014, 11:18 am

Sounds good Smile. One other tip is to always keep moving. It makes it more difficult for enemies to target you with skill shots, and makes it easier for you to stay out of range of their attacks. For fun, I like to practice this when destroying towers and CSing. The next game you're in, try making a quick sidestep between each auto-attack when your taking a tower (once you've got CSing down you can do it there too). If the tower is undefended this won't actually help you destroy it any faster, but it will help you hone the skill so you can use it during the next teamfight.
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by KMV on 18/8/2014, 11:22 am

Heartstop123 wrote:I will have to try that thanks! I tend to be that ADC tha KMV described, though I am getting better! I have been playing normals and ARAMs to try things out before trying ranked again for a while

Its also why I can't play bot lane as it is in the Meta because, I can't stand it when people stand around when a free engage can be had. Also, people do this even in Silver and Gold so its not just a bronze thing even if you suck at adc just bait in the other team do what you can to lay down damage and stay alive.

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Re: I am better than most bronzies

Post by Paradijs on 22/4/2015, 8:55 am

If you Want to carry your game and climb up from bronze to gold as fast as possible:
Adc < graves (not that hard to be average with)
sup < leona (easy champ, tank, lots of cc)
mid < katarina ( not that hard to master and really good carry)
jungle < xin zhao/vi (xin is really easy to master and is good, vi is harder but she is better)
top < renekton/wukong/nasus (always take tp top, it will help with baron/drake fights and you will make the difference in a lot of teamfights especially when the enemy toplane has ignite)
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Re: I am better than most bronzies

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